Comments on: Rice or Wheat? http://www.fringeblog.com/2004/08/rice-or-wheat/ The fringe is where the real resides, where substance and style are made one. Sun, 24 Jan 2010 06:23:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: ELC http://www.fringeblog.com/2004/08/rice-or-wheat/comment-page-1/#comment-1239 ELC Tue, 24 Aug 2004 03:50:49 +0000 http://www.fringeblog.com/2004/08/rice-or-wheat/#comment-1239 As to "ripple effects," the sacraments are what they are. Any unfortunate results that arise from their abuse are, likewise, what they are. (One thing that must be kept in mind about the Catholic faith is that it is very realistic; that is, it proceeds from and points to realities. The woman in the article needs to learn this.) But God is both just and merciful, and we trust that He would not apportion any blame to somebody who acts in good faith, though other persons may have failed to act in good faith. I do not wish to minimize the bad consequences of invalid sacraments. We do need to keep in mind, however, that though the Church is bound by the sacraments as God has instituted them, God Himself is not so bound and can supply by His Grace what has been lacking. As to this specific case, I see that the girl's mother specifically rejected the option for her daughter to communicate under the form of wine only. The woman declines to have her daughter partake of the body, blood, soul and divinity of Our Lord and Savior because she can't do it the way her mother thinks she should be able to. ISTM, then, that the woman is willful and judgemental and wants to have everything her own way, and I cannot see how she has her daughter's best interests in mind. As to “ripple effects,” the sacraments are what they are. Any unfortunate results that arise from their abuse are, likewise, what they are. (One thing that must be kept in mind about the Catholic faith is that it is very realistic; that is, it proceeds from and points to realities. The woman in the article needs to learn this.) But God is both just and merciful, and we trust that He would not apportion any blame to somebody who acts in good faith, though other persons may have failed to act in good faith. I do not wish to minimize the bad consequences of invalid sacraments. We do need to keep in mind, however, that though the Church is bound by the sacraments as God has instituted them, God Himself is not so bound and can supply by His Grace what has been lacking.
As to this specific case, I see that the girl’s mother specifically rejected the option for her daughter to communicate under the form of wine only. The woman declines to have her daughter partake of the body, blood, soul and divinity of Our Lord and Savior because she can’t do it the way her mother thinks she should be able to. ISTM, then, that the woman is willful and judgemental and wants to have everything her own way, and I cannot see how she has her daughter’s best interests in mind.

]]> By: Strat http://www.fringeblog.com/2004/08/rice-or-wheat/comment-page-1/#comment-1238 Strat Tue, 24 Aug 2004 00:12:18 +0000 http://www.fringeblog.com/2004/08/rice-or-wheat/#comment-1238 So...if you are allergic to wheat...you are...automatically going to hell? Or, what? You can be saved, but you can't take communion? Person 1: I'm going to hell. Person 2: What? Are you bad? Are you an aetheist or something? Person 1: Nah. I'm allergic to wheat. Person 2: ? Person 1: Yep. It kind of limits my sandwich eating too. So…if you are allergic to wheat…you are…automatically going to hell? Or, what? You can be saved, but you can’t take communion?
Person 1: I’m going to hell.
Person 2: What? Are you bad? Are you an aetheist or something?
Person 1: Nah. I’m allergic to wheat.
Person 2: ?
Person 1: Yep. It kind of limits my sandwich eating too.

]]> By: Jessica http://www.fringeblog.com/2004/08/rice-or-wheat/comment-page-1/#comment-1237 Jessica Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:30:05 +0000 http://www.fringeblog.com/2004/08/rice-or-wheat/#comment-1237 I feel a ripple effect coming on. According to the article: "This is not an issue to be determined at the diocesan or parish level, but has already been decided for the Roman Catholic Church throughout the world by Vatican authority," Trenton Bishop John M. Smith said in a statement last week." Translation: This is NOT open to question. But apparently, this rule was put in jeopardy quite a while ago. The article ALSO states that some Catholic churches allow "no-gluten hosts, while others do not." It does not specify time, place, or number, but it makes clear that this has been in practice long enough to mention it. I believe that if the Vatican does not want to appear hypocritical, it is only logical to assume that the Catholic Churches allowing no-gluten hosts will either be ordered to stop, or completely cut off. Not to mention the abrupt invalidation of X number of saved Catholics who received communion with a no-gluten host, right? How would you like to get a call claiming that your communion had been invalidated? While I find the Vatican's staunch refusal to back down from what it believes to be precious and invaluable scriptural doctrine, I also believe that we have a case of seeing the forest for the trees. Now, I'm not saying we should disregard scripture. I'm also not claiming to know God's mind, here. But at the heart of this matter-- what is at STAKE, here-- is the salvation of a young girl's soul, and her acceptance of Christ as her Lord and Savior. And that is a LOT bigger deal than squabbling over what type of grain you use. I feel a ripple effect coming on.
According to the article:
“This is not an issue to be determined at the diocesan or parish level, but has already been decided for the Roman Catholic Church throughout the world by Vatican authority,” Trenton Bishop John M. Smith said in a statement last week.”
Translation: This is NOT open to question.
But apparently, this rule was put in jeopardy quite a while ago.
The article ALSO states that some Catholic churches allow “no-gluten hosts, while others do not.” It does not specify time, place, or number, but it makes clear that this has been in practice long enough to mention it.
I believe that if the Vatican does not want to appear hypocritical, it is only logical to assume that the Catholic Churches allowing no-gluten hosts will either be ordered to stop, or completely cut off.
Not to mention the abrupt invalidation of X number of saved Catholics who received communion with a no-gluten host, right?
How would you like to get a call claiming that your communion had been invalidated?
While I find the Vatican’s staunch refusal to back down from what it believes to be precious and invaluable scriptural doctrine, I also believe that we have a case of seeing the forest for the trees.
Now, I’m not saying we should disregard scripture. I’m also not claiming to know God’s mind, here. But at the heart of this matter– what is at STAKE, here– is the salvation of a young girl’s soul, and her acceptance of Christ as her Lord and Savior.
And that is a LOT bigger deal than squabbling over what type of grain you use.

]]> By: ELC http://www.fringeblog.com/2004/08/rice-or-wheat/comment-page-1/#comment-1236 ELC Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:54:17 +0000 http://www.fringeblog.com/2004/08/rice-or-wheat/#comment-1236 Cleanness or uncleanness, whether spiritual or ritual or otherwise, simply has nothing whatever to do with this situation. The sacraments are real, established by the Lord Jesus Christ, and entrusted to the authority of His Church to maintain until His return. Competent Church authority has determined, over the centuries, what is required for the validity of the sacraments, in fidelity to the commission given by the Lord and His Apostles. For the Holy Eucharist, wheaten bread and grape wine are required. Anything else, to put it simply and perhaps crudely, just doesn't work. Cleanness or uncleanness, whether spiritual or ritual or otherwise, simply has nothing whatever to do with this situation. The sacraments are real, established by the Lord Jesus Christ, and entrusted to the authority of His Church to maintain until His return. Competent Church authority has determined, over the centuries, what is required for the validity of the sacraments, in fidelity to the commission given by the Lord and His Apostles. For the Holy Eucharist, wheaten bread and grape wine are required. Anything else, to put it simply and perhaps crudely, just doesn’t work.

]]> By: Dust in the Light http://www.fringeblog.com/2004/08/rice-or-wheat/comment-page-1/#comment-1240 Dust in the Light Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:37:50 +0000 http://www.fringeblog.com/2004/08/rice-or-wheat/#comment-1240 <strong>Of Men and Rice</strong> Maybe it's being a convert with so much left to learn, or maybe it's the place in the religious discussion in which I feel called to stand, but it still tends to surprise me when people feel compelled to comment... Of Men and Rice

Maybe it’s being a convert with so much left to learn, or maybe it’s the place in the religious discussion in which I feel called to stand, but it still tends to surprise me when people feel compelled to comment…

]]> By: anonymusrex http://www.fringeblog.com/2004/08/rice-or-wheat/comment-page-1/#comment-1235 anonymusrex Sat, 21 Aug 2004 01:26:20 +0000 http://www.fringeblog.com/2004/08/rice-or-wheat/#comment-1235 Actually, it's not only the catholic church that wants the gluten in the wafer- lutherans and anglicans seem to take it pretty seriously as well. And they would quote New Testament verses up the wazoo in order to defend their liturgy. Where you see endless legalistic entanglements in their rituals, they think they are more closely abiding to biblical scripture. They're pretty fierce about the gluten; don't piss them off by dismissing the issue by comparing them to Pharisees and quoting a few verses. Actually, it’s not only the catholic church that wants the gluten in the wafer- lutherans and anglicans seem to take it pretty seriously as well. And they would quote New Testament verses up the wazoo in order to defend their liturgy. Where you see endless legalistic entanglements in their rituals, they think they are more closely abiding to biblical scripture. They’re pretty fierce about the gluten; don’t piss them off by dismissing the issue by comparing them to Pharisees and quoting a few verses.

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